English 622: Classical Rhetoric

The political advise that De Pizan offers in her text to women of means, and women who have access to power, was perhaps the most interesting aspect of her for me. In "How the good and wise princess will make every effort to restore peace between the prince and the barons if there is any discord" Pizan reminds the ladies that war is ugly and terrible, and that women often get the shortest end of the war stick. Therefore she advises the ladies on how to appeal to everyone present, and use her skills with words and persuasion to slow down the massacre. For example,

I thought it was interesting how aggressive Augustine is towards... well...his former profession. Augustine taught for years before he took up the cloth, and when he stops the teaching gig he starts being a little rough to the sophists (see quote below). He advises what many people have advised in the past, which was to go and listen to people who were good at the rhetorical stuff (could stir the passions in the right way... not the bad way, of lying sophists) and learn. However, I was mighty impressed with how much credit he gives to the other pagans... all those right thinking pagans.

Quintilian pretty much rocks. I like that he is not interested in making little Romans memorize things (Bk II, Chpt 7), I like that he recommends positive commentary rather then negative (Bk II, Chpt 6), and I like that he suggests composition can be fun (Bk II, Chpt 4)! While Q. is in love with Cicero, I found him much more clear, more succinct, more caring. What does all this add up to for the ancient rhetorics today?

"... is really suggesting (1) that the world needs people who specialize in multidisciplinarity (if that makes any sense) because (2) these people make the knowledge in the disciplines usable. In other words, orators draw from specialized knowledge whenever they need to and to whatever extent they need to in order to do something in a public venue. I could be reading into Cicero here because I'm projecting my own hopes for liberal arts, but it seems like this goes a long way toward explaining and perhaps validating the "dappled discipline" we talk about so much." - Tom Sura, 2008

I was a little baffled last week when Dave was explaining common places, so I made sure to mark that section in Book 2 for myself. I was originally picturing the common place as the location of a space that everyone could understand. Here in America land we could call the idea of "freedom" a common place (the way I was picturing it in my head); a topic that everyone has some feeling on, some endoxa, some sense of knowing. Then Dave said... Ummm, No, that a common place are "a relational concept that is given content." Okays.

Okay, so this week I still find Socrates annoying in his style (the way that Plato writes him), and I still yell at the text, and still laugh when people score a point against him... but I like the question that he is so obsessed about: What role does the sophist play in the grooming virtue, moral character? What role does a wise person, with a claim to being a teacher, who in some ways takes over when the parents leave off, play in the raising of a person?

Here I will try to stick to both Socrates' and Dr Rick's rule about not being long winded: I don't think that Socrates "won" this argument. It doesn't feel to me like Plato is ripping the sophists a new one here. Indeed, Gorgias' students sort of sit back and admit that there is no talking to this guy Socrates, who seemed so very chill to start. Socrates is using a strategy that leaves no room for conversation, and is asking all these yes/no questions.

Hey All,

Sorry for the late intro. Lets see, what should I write about myself in regards to this class? I love history! It seems that the more I learn about history the more I understand that nothing is that new or exciting. While in a way this makes me more skeptical about any narrative of progress, it also is comforting to me to understand that we are just another chapter in a big long human drama. It makes it easier to be less nervous about the way the world looks now.

Look forward to another semester of learning with all of you. Peace!