English 622: Classical Rhetoric

As I read this week, I could tell it was the end of the semester because my patience is really waning and poor Peter Ramus was the primary victim of my impatience. While I can see Rick’s point, that Ramus was loosening the bonds from the classics, I just felt like his piece was such a step back.

Like Megan, I was interested in Augustine's insistence that rhetors (Christian rhetors specifically) use the appropriate language for their audiences. Augustine is fairly absolute about this. On page 116, he says, "There is no point in speaking at all if our words are not understood by the people to whose understanding our words are directed." This seems also to connect to Rick's post (in a vague kind of way). Rick mentioned that St. Patrick would have been killed for speaking the way that Augustine spoke.

As I read book II, I couldn't help but feel like I was reading a textbook for K-12 teachers. Quintilian tells us that the teacher must adjust to the pace of the students, saying, "but the eloquent professor must also be a man of sense, not ignorant of teaching and capable o lowering himself to the capacity of the learner" (96). The teacher cannot be boring or dry because a dry master is like dry soil in which nothing will grow (100). Additionally, in chapter 6, Quintilian discusses how the teacher should scaffold instruction.

Like Tom and Morgan, I spent quite a bit of time thinking about what type of education Cicero was advocating. Well, first, I was really interested in the way that Cicero criticized teachers of the young, and that led me to questioning the type of education that Cicero was advocating.

Reading Aristotle made me realize just how old I actually am. According to Aristotle, “The body is in its prime from the age of thirty to thirty five,” (153) so apparently my body is in its prime, but not for much longer. However, Aristotle also tells us that the prime of the mind is “age forty-nine” (153). I wish someone had told me about this before I applied to grad school in my thirties. I won’t even make it to retirement while my mind is in its prime!

Rick's question about power over versus power with (or power over together with power with) reminds me a little bit of Tom's story about his student who felt like he could manipulate anyone by the end of 106. Tom seems really disappointed by the student's response but I wonder how much of that is really Tom's doing. As Rick noted, many of our current textbooks simply assume Aristotle's power over approach to rhetoric.

Like Rick, I was really struck by the way that the educational issues Isocrates discusses mirror many of our own educational concerns/issues. The first thing I noticed was the way that Isocrates insists that the student is a reflection of the teacher's ability or good work.

In the past few weeks I've been trying to track Socrates'/Plato's ideas about the process of education/learning. Specifically, I am interested in the content and purpose of the paideia--the lessons.

In _Protagoras_ the title character makes a clear statement about both the content and purpose of the paideia should be. So, as I read _Phaderus_ I looked for similar statements by Socrates.

In reading "Gorgias" this time, I found the section about oratory as a knack, rather than craft, interesting. On page 806 Socrates says that oratory is a knack "For producing a certain gratification and pleasure." He goes on to comment that because oratory is a knack, in the interest of pleasure, it is not admirable.

Hello. I'm Christina Saidy and I'm a second year student in rhet/comp. I'm originally from Los Angeles, Like Pepper I don't really enjoy the cold weather, but Indiana has its merits. I have a Masters in education, Masters in rhet/comp, and teaching credential. When I left California I left behind an eight year teaching career, which I still miss from time to time.