Assignment for Monday, November 17
Tue, 11/11/2008 - 22:33 — Professor Rose
Monday: M11/17 Literacy Theories and Composition 4: and Second-Language Writing
Hartwell, Patrick. “Dialect Interference in Writing: A Critical View.” RTE 14.2 (1980): 101-118.
Matsuda, Paul Kei, et al. “CCCC Statement on Second-Language Writing and Writers.” CCC 52.4 (2001): 669-674. Downloaded from http://www.ncte.org/positions/second-language.shtml 7/7/2003
Silva, Tony and Ilona Leki. “Family Matters: The Influence of Applied Linguistics and Composition Studies on Second Language Writing Studies—Past, Present, and Future.” Modern Language Journal 88.1 (2004): 1-13.
Matsuda, Paul Kei. “Second Language Writing in the Twentieth Century.” In B. Kroll, ed. Exploring the Dynamics of Second Language Writing New York: Cambridge UP, 2003, 15-34.
Use the comment feature to post a discussion question related to one or more of the readings by 11:59 p.m. Sunday evening, Nov. 16.
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Comments
Wed, 11/12/2008 - 01:29 — Zack
Composition Freedoms
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 13:11 — Caitlan
Terminology
In "Second Language Writing in the Twentieth Century," Matsuda uses the terms "L2 writing" and "ESL Writing."
In "Family Matters: The Influence of Applied Linguistics and Composition Studies on Second Language Writing Studies—Past, Present, and Future," Silva and Leki only use the term "L2 writing."
Is there a difference in meaning between these two terms? If so, what is it? Does the answer to those to questions throw any light on why Silva and Leki use only "L2 writing," while Matsuda uses both "ESL writing" and "L2 writing?"
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 17:08 — ahidalgo
Hartwell and D'Eloia on cultural responsibility
In his essay "Dialect Interference" Patrick Hartwell argues that "writing instruction, for all students, ought to be broadly rhetorical, stressing voice, audience and purpose, rather than narrowly grammatical, stressing surface detail and its presumed connection with a spoken standard" (114). Though he doesn't seem to say so exactly, I took his position as asking that we allow all students to write in their natural dialect whether it be Standard English or Black English Vernacular or any other dialectical variation. He argues this because he seems to believe that teaching Standard English puts speakers of other dialects at a disadvantage to students who speak Standard English (102). While this is certainly true, my problem with his position is that this is not an isolated disadvantage. Whether we find it to be fair or not, employers in corporations and other businesses and organizations around the United States prefer to hire people who can speak and write in Standard English, at least for the more financially rewarding, higher-status positions that many of our students have come to college in the hope of later obtaining.
I believe this problem is what he was referring to when he quoted D'Eloia as arguing that we must "still accept the teaching of EAE as a cultural responsibility" (102). He doesn't spell out her concern, however, nor does he ever go on to address it in the rest of his essay. My question then is, if we follow Hartwell's method and allow our students to write in their dialect, how do we morally account for the fact that we're not giving them the preparation that future employers will very likely expect of them?
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 17:12 — Laurie
Historical Narratives
"Family Matters: The Influence of Applied Linguistics and Composition Studies on Second Language Writing Studies -- Past, Present, and Future" (Silva and Leki, 2004) and "Second Language Writing in the Twentieth Century: A Situated Historical Perspective" (Matsuda, 2003) construct narratives regarding the history of Second Language Studies/Writing. In what ways are these narratives similar? In what ways are they different? What is the reason for or the significance of the resonance or dissonance between these two?
*Consider this question in light of the narratives of the history of composition studies that we read early in the semester. As you recall some of the reasons we proposed for differing historical narratives in composition, consider whether similar reasons might contribute to dissonance in histories of Second Language Studies/Writing? If you find resonance rather than dissonance, why might this be the case?
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 17:30 — Liz
Parents learning from their child
The readings for tomorrow's class bring up a two-year old question for me (one that I am still quite concerned about): When will L1 writing start really learning from L2 writing research? Matsuda alludes to this in his article, stating that "some insights from second language studies have been applied to L1 composition studies as a way of addressing the needs of NES basic writers" (24). This is a step in the right direction, but why can't non-basic writers also learn from L2 writing research? Does the field still view L2 writers as deficient in some way, that they are somehow "basic"? Or is there something else going on?
This question also came up in Silva and Leki's article. They provide great historical context for their readers to understand what L2 has taken from composition studies and applied linguistics, but is there anything these fields can take from L2? They mention that applied linguistics might be ahead of composition studies here, so I'm wondering why composition studies is "lagging behind."
While reading Silva and Leki's 2004 article and Matsuda's 2003 chapter, I also kept wondering if these selections would be more effective and reach the audience they need to reach (i.e., the composition field) if they were published in 3Cs instead of The Modern Language Journal and a book written for a L2 interested audience. However, this concern is addressed on page 9 when Silva and Leki write that 3Cs "does not appear to be especially L2 writing friendly" despite the fact that the Statement on Second Language Writing and Writers was published in 3Cs three years before Silva and Leki's article and two years before Matsuda's chapter. Why the unfriendliness? Has it truly gotten better since 2003 and 2004? Why not start to include marginalized voices and research in a field that is, as Silva and Leki write, "left to far left in its politics" (7)?
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 18:17 — clemenje
Comparing "Statement onf Second Lang.." and "Students' Right..."
“Although the collaborative efforts of L1 and L2 specialists have resulted in various publications, and although CCCC has recently adopted an official statement concerning second language writing and writers in North American college composition programs (CCCC Statement on Second Language Writing and Writers, 2001), more efforts need to be made to fully integrate L2 writing issues into composition studies” (Matsuda et. al. qtd. in Matsuda 25).
Given the above two statements, what are we to make of the vast differences in breadth and depth between the CCCC “Statement on Second Language Writing and Writers” and the CCCC “Students’ Right to Their Own Language?” What similarities and differences exist in purpose and audience? What other contextual information need be taken into account? Do you ultimately agree with Silva and Leki and Matsuda et. al. about the present “lack” of integration of L2 issues into L1 consideration? Why or why not?
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 23:09 — Brian
L2 Writing Research in Composition Studies
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 23:08 — apope
RE: Hartwell
Patrick Hartwell makes the comment at one point in his article that "teachers of writing have once again borrowed, by analogy, a view of interference that is no longer held by most theorists in the field from which the analogy is drawn" (106).
Considering previous readings that have mentioned (MacDonald) the growing split between Rhetorical/Composition and Linguistics, how can we as Rhet/Comp scholars avoid falling into this trap? How can we avoid one of the greatest risks which is also one of the greatest strengths of our field: diversity?
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 23:47 — eosterha
I cannot help but agree with
I cannot help but agree with Hartwell’s observation that “written English is not a dialect” (p. 105). Although “dialect” is a notoriously problematic term, the bottom line is that spoken language is a natural, transitory process and written English is a learned and more permanent phenomenon. However, this insistence that written language should be treated differently than spoken language (which I think most would take as a given) ultimately leads to his conclusion that all writing instruction should be broadly rhetorical (p. 114). While again I agree with Hartwell’s basic conclusion, I take issue with the idea that a sound rhetorical approach to composition and a linguistically motivated approach are mutually exclusive (as have many others, including Silva and Matsuda).
Has the notion of dialect interference in writing indeed been discarded, as recommended by Hartwell? If so, can this fact support the teaching of a standard EAE in place of emphasizing SRTOL? Does ignoring the discrepancies between standard written English and the dialects students bring to the classroom further marginalize “non-standard” variants? Although Hartwell's piece was published over twenty years ago, I get the impression that variations of this question have not been addressed to everyone's satisfaction.
Sun, 11/16/2008 - 23:58 — min
ESL writers in the first-year composition course
Mon, 11/17/2008 - 00:00 — Cristina Gonzalez
Contributions to the narrative
Mon, 11/17/2008 - 08:29 — esproat
Second Language Guidelines for Writing Programs
In the CCCC statement on Second Language Writing and Writers, they suggest a number of guidelines. Some of these include the following: "placement of second-language writers into writing courses should be based on students' writing proficiency rather than" other factors, placement in writing courses should not be "based solely on the scores from standardized tests of general lan- guage proficiency or of spoken language proficiency," "Writing programs should work toward making a wide variety of placement options available," "writing programs should inform students of the advan- tages and disadvantages of each placement option," "Writing prompts for placement and exit exams should avoid cultural references that are not readily understood by people who come from various cultural backgrounds," "The scoring of sec- ond-language texts should take into consideration various aspects of writing (e.g., topic development, organization, grammar, word choice), rather than fo- cus only on one or two of these features that stand out as problematic," "working with second-language writers often requires additional feedback and conference time with the instructor," and on and on.
All of the guidelines seem to be based on good principles of teaching that all students would benefit from. Here's the question, "How much does the presence of second language students change the way we look at teaching composition rather than provide further explanation of what we already know are good practices?